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Robotic Rubik's Cube Solver for Thesis Proposal

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testing101
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Post by chaos2121 Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:32 pm

he willl be there he is the fastest cuber in cebu i think?

heheeh

is the moderator of the open better find him ok??
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Post by marc_rendl Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:17 pm

I suggest you send these people your program to get the most professional advice:

JB Canares: He is the fastest Filipino we all know. A forum moderator. since he is the fastest and he is one of the forerunners of PCA forums, i assume he is the one of those cubers who is very well informed on how the cube works.

Benjo Enriquez:He is also a moderator, although he does not post that much nor he visits PCA forums often. He does attend most of the cube-meets. He took up BS Mathematics in UP Diliman, same as my course. His undergraduate research (i personally read it before in the College of Sci Library, though i did not understand some parts of it) explained how the Rubik's Cube (the 3x3x3 cube, i mean) works in mathematical terms, in which he also used group theory. He also stated mathematical proofs for the "impossible cases/configuration" of the Rubik's Cube. I really think that he is the best PCA can offer.

Comp programmers in PCA: I dont really personally know who are comp programmers in PCA but i believe they can help you out with algorithms. I am interested in ComSci but too bad im studying math now so i don't really program that much anymore as i did in my 1st year in UPD and as well during my high school days...

you are always welcome here at PCA
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Post by robert_papalid_ece Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:05 am

If I could manage to sneak some time, I will surely attend the event. For sure, I could learn something there which I could be able to use for my project; and of course, meet some people.

Thanks for the info.

To marc:
That is what I am planning. After finishing the program that I am currently making, I could send you and other interested people here, a copy of it. Maybe just the executable file, not the source code, of course. Probably, as early as next month or as late as two months from now. Still have other things to do, aside from this one. I could actually finish the development of the program if just given one straight week or maybe even lesser, of straight dedicated work.

Well anyway, I will just take it slow. As I've mentioned, I still have more than year to prepare. So no pressure at all as of this moment.

Maybe you could just give me (PM) your e-mail addresses; and I would just attach the file, if it won't exceed 1MB. Don't worry, I won't attach any form of virus whatsoever on my e-mail.

I will just post if the program is already available.
Hopefully a month from now or two.
And your feedbacks will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Pinoy Speed Cubers!
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Post by marc_rendl Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:39 am

what programming language are you going to use? i dont know many of them, so i suggest you use the tools that explain the algorithms at the side of every (actually,im not asking not "every") line of your code. for example in C++, it uses "/* */" signs for notes/comments
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Post by jusay_mitch29 Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:11 pm

sana ung robot na gagawin mo may abilitly na i break in ung cube nakakatamad kasi amg break in e
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Post by marc_rendl Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:18 pm

@jusay_mitch29:
is this a joke? hindi po ganun ang gagawin niyang robot. please read previous posts.
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Post by robert_papalid_ece Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:13 am

To marc_rendl:
Im currently coding in VB6; but if the processing/computing tends to become slow, maybe I could use Visual C++ for that case. C++ is way faster. I am still in the early stages; so major modifications can still be possible.

The main point here is to create a "program" that can solve a Rubik's cube. Creating the "mechanical robotic hardware" is not actually that as important. A program is enough. But it would be more challenging to build a moving robot though.

Making the hardware is not the main concept of this proposal; but the algorithmic software/program itself. Once the program is done, the mechanical side can then be easily implemented. We could even incorporate voice; to comply previous suggestions of a "talking robot". But as I have said, that is not even the point. But the program, it is.
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Post by Jome Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:44 am

Aha. So you are from DLSU. I live at Dominga, btw, so it can be pretty easy to help you with this. Although I must admit, I do not know even an inkling of coding/programming/software. Haha.

But if you need someone to explain the basic concepts, I can help.
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Post by gian_oneil Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:08 pm

gagamit k b ng color sensor??

kung marunong k gumamit ng color sensor.. bka makatulong ako sayo,..... madali lng vb6..... tsaka anung motor b gagmitin mo...servo b??

kailangan lng cguro ng mga sets of codes per algo. na gagawin ng robot.....
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Post by robert_papalid_ece Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:05 am

To Jome:
Yeah. Thanks for the offer Jome. I am not so familiar with the place (Dominga). Considering I am from Cebu, and just started to stay sa Manila last January. So, I am not yet that familiar with the place, except sa La Salle areas.
That's what I need Jome. That is the reason why I shared my project with all of you. What I want to know, are the concepts of solving the cube. Leave the programming with me. While in the first place, the most important thing is knowing the concepts/algorithms of cube solving; and the programming or the implementation would then follow.
As of now, I am still in the process of developing the program. And as I have mentioned, this could be possibly finished as early as next month or as late as two months. But surely, Pinoy Speed Cubers will be the first one to know; and as I have previously mentioned, I will be sending you the copy of the program (once done), for your professional feedbacks.

To gian_oneil:
Actually gian, I am still not thinking yet of the mechanical part of the project; but currently on the software part. I am doing this project alone, of course with the help the Pinoy Speed Cuber's advises and support, and I have to take it one by one. Firstly, doing the program, and then later, designing the hardware robotic mechanism.
But I guess, I will not be using any color sensor just to capture the cube's color; but a camera (webcam) will do instead. Just imagine, securing 54 color sensors, for each of the cube's squares. Right?
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Post by kabhoom Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:11 pm

better to ask master benjo, hehe 20yrs in cubing, tsaka ang pagkakaalam ko, about algos in cube ang thesis nya before kaya kung kelangan mo ng tulong, i think si benjo kelangan mo.. kaya nya ipaliwanag sayo kung bakit ganun ang algo ng isang move unlike most of the cubers ay kabisado lang nila ang mga move..
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Post by testing101 Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:00 pm

@robert
hello, nice project..
tanong ko lang po kung anong robot gagamitin mo??
lego mindstorm po ba??? heheh.. kasi interested rin kasi ako gumawa ng robot solving cube pinoy version.. heheh.. kasi medyo may background rin ako sa robot maikng and programming using lego mindstorm.. and im capable of all the basic knowledege in solving a cube from 2x2 up to 5x5.. hehe.. interested talga kaso wala akong proper materials.. mahal kasi ng robot kit..
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Post by robert_papalid_ece Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:27 pm

To kabhoom:
Well, it would be a big honor on my part to work or ask ideas with the best the Pinoy Speed Cubers can give. Even responses from people here on this forum is already a big thing for me. Could I ask for Master Benjo's e-mail address or any contact detail? Thank you for the endorsement, kabhoom.

To testing101:
I will be developing my own program, and be building my own hardware robotic design. I am not even familiar with the Lego Mindstorm that you are mentioning. But I guess it is from Lego the toy company right? I am glad that the a lot of people share the same interest as with me.

More power!
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Post by jusay_mitch29 Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:24 pm







mga vids galung youtube mga kakaubang ga robot cube solvers sana makatulong to
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Post by robert_papalid_ece Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:42 pm

Hello everybody. Thanks again for the vast interest regarding this topic.
Just would like to inform everybody regarding the updates for this project. As I have said, I am currently busy developing the program.

So far, my program is still capable of solving the Top Layer and the First Layer of the cube puzzle. That means, the software side of the project is now 30 percent done. Still have to make some major modifications though.

If you are interested of acquiring a sample copy of this program, I am very willing of sending a limited number of copies to people here. You can just give me your e-mails. Your feedbacks are greatly appreciated. But as I have said, the program is still capable of solving the the Top Layer and the First Layer of the cube.

Unfortunately, I will stop working on the project for one month or so. It is our term break and I will be back home (Cebu) for some vacation. And I will not be bringing my computer. Maybe I could continue the project next month. But if you are all interested, I could still send you the program.

The program's ability of solving the cube is still very limited and I have only trained it with few moves. So do not be surprised if the program will solve the Top Layer and the First Layer with a lot moves. Hehe.

These are my data so far for:

SOLVING THE TOP AND THE FIRST LAYER:

TRIAL TOTAL MOVES

TRIAL 1: 72
TRIAL 2: 70
TRIAL 3: 51
TRIAL 4: 134
TRIAL 5: 63
TRIAL 6: 86
TRIAL 7: 52
TRIAL 8: 68
TRIAL 9: 57
TRIAL 10: 72

The data proves a poor problem solving capability. But as I have mentioned before, the user can train the program by introducing your own techniques and store them to the program's memory. A learning algorithm, that is.
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Post by testing101 Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:23 pm

machine learning ba ginagawa mo?? nice.. anong language gamit mo???
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Post by benjediman Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:00 pm

@ Sir Robert, nicely done! When I started playing with the cube, I averaged more than a hundred moves all in all!

I am very interested in your software, can you possibly send it to me please? Maybe I can help with the algorithms to help shorten move counts.

My e-mail is benjediman@yahoo.com.

Thank you very much and keep up the great work, sir!
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Post by Jome Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:17 pm

I am, too. However, I use a Mac. Still, I'll check it out on a Windows platform if such is the case.

My email is: graveyardshiftee@gmail.com.

Also, just a thought. I think Bryan will agree with me on this one: Instead of the first and top layer, why not try a 2x2x2 block? If this proves difficult, search for the Petrus method online. It will shed a lot of light on your program.

It might even totally use Petrus so that the total cube solution would be reduced to less than 50 moves!
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Post by jusay_mitch29 Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:51 pm

ganun po ba petrus sandali lang e kung petrus man ang gagamitin edi intuitive lahat edi dapat marunong mag isip ung robot... i'm puzzled and confused
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Post by Jome Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:59 pm

No, not really. Merong tinatawag na two-generators. Bryan knows that well, so tingin ko pwede. Isa pa, hindi completely intuitive ang Petrus. May algos pa rin yun. Yung transition lang from 2x2x3 block to last few moves ang kailangan ng kaunting intuition.
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Post by iruel117 Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:37 am

medyo interested ako pero kayo na lang but i'm fund of lego's.Lego minstorms are toys that you build and can move by its motors they call NXT's or whatever,Pero my vids sa youtube na Lego ang nagsosolve ng Cube just check it out. I love playing with them kahit ngayon just for fun pero pwede rin siquro kung ZB method kahit madaming algs yun they can be helpful kung tiyatiyagain:D
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Post by robert_papalid_ece Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:59 pm

UPDATE:
Another development for my project. I have worked with my program last night and slept 3 am. And my program can now solve the Top Layer, First Layer, and now the Middle Layer, leaving the Bottom Layer and the Third Layer unsolved. However, the program solves these layers very poorly. It could even reach up to 300 moves, but sometimes 100 to 150 moves.

I am now collecting your e-mail addresses. Expect the software to be sent tommorow. Please give some feedbacks afterwards. That would mean a lot. Other interested people, please send your e-mail address, so that I could send the program all at once.

Maybe tommorow around 10 pm. I will send you the software copy as well as a manual on how to use it. But the program is still very rough, though working.

Thanks everybody for the interest and support.

To testing101:
Yes bro. This project is related to Artificial Intellegence. As I have mentioned before, I am making a software-robot capable of seemingly decision making skills. Learning process indeed. I am currently making it in Visual Basic, but it proves to be very slow. So maybe in the actual thesis proposal implemenation proper, I could code it in C++.

To benjediman:
Bro. My program is still capable of solving the Top and First Layer, and now, the middle layer. And with still the Bottom Layer and the Third Layer left, the program can solve the cube in more than a hundred moves. Sometimes even 300 moves. Hehe. But its ability is very much dependent on the techniques you have "taught" to the program. And maybe, not long from now, we can create some optimized solutions.

To Jome:
I have not tried my program to run in Mac. But if you have a Windows platform available, it would be very advisable. Thank you Bro, for another pointer. Maybe I will try to check that out, and see if that would really help. Whatever advices from people here are greatly accepted and considered. This project is becoming more of a team project. I owe a lot to this community if this project will really be materialized.
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Post by Jome Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Wait, medyo nalabuan ako. Haha. Do you mean that it can solve the cube by using the Middle Layer as the first layer? That's pretty cool.

Hmm. Dapat talaga merong maganap na meeting or collaboration. Nakakatuwa rin eh. Actually, kung layer-by-layer siya, might as well use Corners First method. Or Waterman. Or whatever. The possibilities are endless.

Hoping to test it soon. Thanks. Will reply ASAP.
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Post by marc_rendl Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:38 pm

so you really have to incorporate a human-method and apply it for the
robot? optimizing one's method??... also try the thislewaite (im not
sure with the name.. but this is not a method for humans)...

again.. my email is marc_rendl@yahoo.com
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Post by jusay_mitch29 Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:38 am

siguro po pede ang keyhole method to lessen the moves... tas fridrich for the top layer.... pero kung pede petru para 1st robot to use petrus method
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