Shocker from speedsolving.com: Matyas Kuti is a cheater??!!

I remember writing in another thread that i've actually thought whether matyas is a cheater or not coz his times were really incredible. This is a shocking news, however, (written by Milan Baticz) from Speedsolving.com

These are the ODDS: Coincidence? or Cheats?

During the Belgian Open 2008, Matyas DNF'd twice because the scrambler (Milan Baticz) covered his solves the whole time!!!

In the Multi-BLD, the only cube that was DNF (Re: he got 9/10) was the only cube where the scrambler completely covered it up!!!

And, the DNF's were really bad, not even close.

I'm not saying matyas is a cheater. Read the forum first, and judge for yourselves. I think, we have to look at the result of his next competition...

http://www.speedsolving.com/showthread.php?t=2842

Speedsolving the Rubik's Cube ( Speedcubing ) and Other Puzzles Forum > General Cubing > Blindfold Cubing > Matyas Kuti is a CHEATER!!!
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bamilan
02-06-2008, 09:18 PM
I started this topic because I want to show everyone that he is a cheater!
He cheats all his WRs, he also cheated at Belgian Open(2008). I can prove that with videos.

Let's start some tricks, which he use:
- standing while solving
- holding cube near the body
- put blindfold ON nose, and not under nose


There are judges who holds the paper between the cubers head and the cube, but hold it only for few seconds, so the solver can do the 1-2 alg which he saw while cheating. Or hold paper fot 10-15 seconds, but they can't recognize that the solver does nodo algs(for example (R U R' U')x4).

OK. Let's continue with Matyas. The most seeable cheat was that he made a mistake while solving 15 cubes blindfolded.
Watch this vid from 2:35 to 2:55.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDsQ7NnhJKU
You can recognize that he messed up corners, and tryed to solve them again. He stopped for some seconds, when he recognized that he messed up them, and turn cube around, the reason why he get know the moves which solve corners.

Or watch videos from Belgian Open 08. He tried to solve 10 cubes blindfolded.
The judge was not strick, didn't put the paper between Matyas's head and the cube, so he could easily cheat. But when he was solving his 10th cube, I finished my event, and went there, and recognize that his blindfold on his nose, and maybe he cheats. So I hold the paper to the right place, and he did 1 alg, and then started thinking, and DNFed. He couldn't solve that.

Normal blindfolded solve: I holded the paper when he was solving, so he couldn't cheat, and DNFed.

I don't want to say that he can't solve the cube blindfolded in 1 minute, I just want to say that he cheated. I KNOW that he can do it. But he cheated his WRs .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sSqbdCYUXw
Well, what can I say... he put blindfold on his nose, and then oushed it back up a little. And when Robert(judge) put his arm between his eyes and the cube, he stopped to think, and tryed to keep it secret that he cheated, so he thinked more.

4x4 BLD at Czech Open? That one was WR. He did a bunch of rotations, and did moves like F2 F2 or R U R' think R U' R' to see which colour is on R side or D side.


Well, don't know what to say...
If he is a cheater please delete all his records, all WRs(BLD records, clock, magic, ...).


Milan Baticz
Derrick Eide17
02-06-2008, 09:32 PM
I got REALLY suspicious myself after I heard what happened after Belgian Open, and i thought Matyas could be cheating too, because there is just too much against him, and i was just shocked. I think it is quite disgraceful if true that Matyas Has cheated this whole time, putting all others hard work gone to waste... I watched many of his videos after his Belgian open mishap and noticed many other things that started to bring it all into perspective for me, which is why i posted my other topic, and yes it was about Matyas. I just hope the best can come out of this, and if cheating at Least Matyas is Honest about it, but his WR's should be deleted because sorry cheating is quite Disgraceful.
tim
02-06-2008, 09:41 PM
how can you cheat in clock, magic, ...?
Derrick Eide17
02-06-2008, 09:44 PM
Well i dont think milan is saying he cheats at those, but IF Matyas cheats why should he be allowed to hold WR's? shouldnt there be a punishment? again im not saying he cheats yet, but im just really skeptical.
tim
02-06-2008, 09:56 PM
Well i dont think milan is saying he cheats at those, but IF Matyas cheats why should he be allowed to hold WR's? shouldnt there be a punishment? again im not saying he cheats yet, but im just really skeptical.

"He cheats all his WRs"
Derrick Eide17
02-06-2008, 09:58 PM
um.... *runs away crying* lol but no i think he meant he cheats ALL his BLD world records like 3X3, 4X4, 5X5, MULTIBLD, etc.
DennisStrehlau
02-06-2008, 09:59 PM
Hi everybody...
Well, of course you COULD think that he cheats, because of his good times in blind-cathogories, but i do not think so. I just think, that he is the best in blindfolded cubing. I do not understand how to memorize for example 10 cubes in such a time (well i do not know the time, but when i looked at him while memorizing, i saw, that he is already solving) but i think it is possible.
I memorized 5 cubes in a class in under 8 minutes and i didnt know, that i could do that. So with many hours of training a day, you can ALWAYS do that!
Dennis:)
KJiptner
02-06-2008, 10:02 PM
Could you guys please relax? We have no real evidence, only a bunch of assumptions that remind me of those YouTube-Comments we all know about. The idea of taking ALL his WRs away is rediculous.
rubiks to the third
02-06-2008, 10:05 PM
dude, they hold a piece of paper over the cube during comps to make sure u cant see with the blindfold on
DennisStrehlau
02-06-2008, 10:09 PM
so no matter what is wrong and what is right now...(i think he is not a cheater as i already said)
whats next?
Derrick Eide17
02-06-2008, 10:15 PM
they only hold the paper under for like 3-5 seconds then just move it away. but yeah IF, (IF) matyas is cheating well of course SHOULDNT something be done? Why do we want Tainted WR's? that wont be beat.
Dene
02-06-2008, 10:18 PM
Of course they will. BLD cubing still has a long way to go.
Rama
02-06-2008, 10:19 PM
Ton and I were driving to our home af the Belgian Open and he and I were allready discussing about holding the paper constantly infront of the cubers, because I saw a few weird (with weird I mean the hold their head in a weird way or have their bld not properly on) bld cubers and since then I started to judge with holding the paper constantly under the cubers head. Since the German National Championships 2007 I started this.
I know you can get a lame arm of this, but I'd rather take the precaution.

I trust Mátyás as much as I trust everybody with blindfolded cubing.
guusrs
02-06-2008, 10:21 PM
I think it sounds very logic to me a lot BLD-solvers cheat sometimes because the current rules make it possible, which is almost the original Murphy-law: "things will go wrong in any given situation, if you give them a chance", see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy's_law.

In other words: improve the WCA-rules!
sam
02-06-2008, 10:25 PM
One thing i REALLY want to see is that 1.71 master magic solve...*drools*. Thats def. not cheating but in general if anyone has a clip of that, drop me a line...
masterofthebass
02-06-2008, 10:27 PM
1.72... not 1.71. Get your facts straight.
DennisStrehlau
02-06-2008, 10:28 PM
that sound as if every blindcuber would cheat?!
i heard, that the judge was holding the paper often and for a long time under my nose when i did the multi bld in Belgian...so i think, that thos has to be done with every blindcuber, not only to the "new" ones...then you can be sure, that they do not cheat...but i do also not know, why people stop cubing, when the judge holds a piece of paper under their nose...
tim
02-06-2008, 10:31 PM
I think it sounds very logic to me a lot BLD-solvers cheat sometimes because the current rules make it possible

Don't think or believe. Name some people or just be silent, please.
Mike Hughey
02-06-2008, 10:36 PM
I'm not sure what to say except that this whole topic is so sad. Regardless of who is or is not cheating, I think we really need to get serious about having a method that absolutely prevents cheating, so that there can be no doubts and a topic like this can't happen ever again.
Cubegeek
02-06-2008, 10:37 PM
Bamilan,

You might be right because even the solving part in BLD looks like Fridrich to me

Join the Houston Cubing Association today!!!

My site www.cubegeek.net
tim
02-06-2008, 10:38 PM
Bamilan,

You might be right because even the solving part in BLD looks like Fridrich to me

Join the Houston Cubing Association today!!!

My site www.cubegeek.net

lol, that one was great .
Rama
02-06-2008, 10:40 PM
that sound as if every blindcuber would cheat?!

Sorry Dennis, I trust everybody, but since there is always commotion about ''cheating with blindfolded'' I think the best way to prevent cheating is just to hold a simple piece of paper in front of the cuber. Maybe later they advance to coughing from the audience etc... but till then this will do. :p
joey
02-06-2008, 10:44 PM
The only downfall I find with a piece of paper, is that it could touch my arms while solving, especially with the amount I sway during solving. Which could be quite off putting.

Also, we need to make sure the judges realise they only put the paper infront of the cuber when they start to solve, it would be annoying if a judge tried to stop me from memorising
DennisStrehlau
02-06-2008, 10:48 PM
Yes Rama...
i think it is good to do this...
and i am happy that the judge holded the paper so often under my nose, so that the poeple know that i really did it:)
i was soooo happy that i didn't do a mistake:)
Dene
02-06-2008, 10:55 PM
The only downfall I find with a piece of paper, is that it could touch my arms while solving, especially with the amount I sway during solving. Which could be quite off putting.

Also, we need to make sure the judges realise they only put the paper infront of the cuber when they start to solve, it would be annoying if a judge tried to stop me from memorising

LMAO, classic. You can imagine it. Like in the middle of memorising the judge does his "random placement of paper between eyes and cube by new rule". It's like "What the hell are you doing??!"
Harris Chan
02-06-2008, 11:05 PM
The only downfall I find with a piece of paper, is that it could touch my arms while solving, especially with the amount I sway during solving. Which could be quite off putting.

Also, we need to make sure the judges realise they only put the paper infront of the cuber when they start to solve, it would be annoying if a judge tried to stop me from memorising

LMAO, classic. You can imagine it. Like in the middle of memorising the judge does his "random placement of paper between eyes and cube by new rule". It's like "What the hell are you doing??!"

Lol and then you would get a penalty for trying to communicate with the judge
pjk
02-06-2008, 11:07 PM
First off, is this post really made by Milan? People can make ID's basically anywhere, so don't assume Milan says this until we know for sure.

I can see what you're saying on the cheating, but I think it is a false accusation. You think he cheated on all 31 BLD success? He DNFed both at the Belgian Open, was something done differently that makes you think he DNFed because he couldn't cheat?

As I said before, I am with Matyas on this right now until I could absolutely guarantee he cheated. Please guys, don't assume anything until you see hard evidence.
Derrick Eide17
02-06-2008, 11:12 PM
Yeah it really is Milan i talked to him bout it. okay one thing though that people keep saying thats bugging me is we need hard evidence. again im not saying he is cheating for sure yet BUT. just think of the ODDS here guys.... come on... out of his 30+ BLD solves in his whole time in competition the ONE time that he FINALLY DNF's on.. is the first time that his cube is EVER covered up permanently? the chances of that happening are like 1/30+ !! even if u disregard THOSE odds, then take in mind his 10 cube MultiBLD. he has 10 cubes he could POSSIBLY DNF on. ANY one of those 10 cubes... and the ONE cube he DNF's on.... is the ONLY cube that was covered up. those odds are also horrible 1/10. and taking into account his 2:57 vid at WC the only real BLD solve matyas has ever screwed up on ever in competition, out of ALL of his BLD solves ever the ONE solve he screws up on is the only solve that the judge has ever put their hand in front of the cube for a long time. Again (IF) matyas is cheating its quite disgraceful. If proven he doesnt cheat, i am TERRIBLY, TERRIBLY, TERRIBLY, sorry for even ASSUMING this at all.
DennisStrehlau
02-06-2008, 11:20 PM
Mhhhhhhh...Derrike...i think about what you are writing...
we will see on the BENELUX OPEN...
i cant imagine, that he is a cheater...
Dene
02-06-2008, 11:46 PM
Well, there are only 2 things that you have named that could potentially sway his innocence. I think this is a serious lack of evidence, and we will easily soon find out the truth.

Actually, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, in his DNF's, were they very close, or obscenely bad? If they were close then I think that is self-explanatory. If they were terribly off it would not help his case.
tim
02-06-2008, 11:56 PM
Actually, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, in his DNF's, were they very close, or obscenely bad? If they were close then I think that is self-explanatory. If they were terribly off it would not help his case.
The second one wasn't really close. He gave up in the middle of the solve, because he forgot a few pieces.

btw. there's a very easy way to cheat. Just wait for a cuber who successfully solved a cube blindfolded and ask him to recreate the scramble. I could've easily got a sub-10 memo this way at Belgian Open.
Derrick Eide17
02-06-2008, 11:59 PM
Mhhhhhhh...Derrike...i think about what you are writing...
we will see on the BENELUX OPEN...
i cant imagine, that he is a cheater...

Yeah me too Dennis, when i first heard about this, and starting think i actually got really sad thinking if he was a cheater, i want him to be innocent of course, so i cant wait till Benelux Open myself also i dont think i even mentioned yet, GREAT JOB AT Belgian Open!! congrats on winning Multi BLD man! u deserved it!
DennisStrehlau
02-07-2008, 12:03 AM
To Tim:
Yes...wo talked about that...
to Derrike:
Thank you very much:)
I am really happy...going to do 12 on the Benelux Open...
See you there?!
Derrick Eide17
02-07-2008, 12:10 AM
omg how i would love to go to that but no competitions has always been a huge problem with me because i have no money for it i rarely get to go to any competitios so its hard to deal with. Also GOOD LUCK on ur 12 cube Multi at Benelux, I REALLY hope you do it Dennis! at my next competition (TOW) im gonna try 7, wish me luck
tim
02-07-2008, 12:12 AM
omg how i would love to go to that but no competitions has always been a huge problem with me because i have no money for it i rarely get to go to any competitios so its hard to deal with. Also GOOD LUCK on ur 12 cube Multi at Benelux, I REALLY hope you do it Dennis! at my next competition (TOW) im gonna try 7, wish me luck

Dennis is going to try just 12? What a lame guy
DennisStrehlau
02-07-2008, 12:20 AM
Thanks...
No, i am not a lame guy:mad:
the time limit is 2 hours...if it would be 3, i would try 16...
on the German Open, i will try 16 or more;)
Lucas Garron
02-07-2008, 12:31 AM
Several things:

1) Let's not discuss cheating prevention method in this thread. I have pointed out that it is currently still possible to obtain the scramble early and fake it enough to seem to beat any system during the actual solve.
But this has reminded me that a paper may not be too useful. If you can see the cube getting solved (like, corners getting completed and staying that way thereafter), okay, but what prevents us from doing an arbitrary algorithm while the paper is over? I could do some form of a superflip and then do it again later...

2) On the 15-cube vid he's making progress on the corners all the time, and then switching to edges. Where's the problem?

3) Spare moves and rotations. I think Matyas is just good at keeping track of the cube while deciding on orientation for algs, and I don't see a reason that R2R2 is cheating.

4) Wow, that's a long time not to get caught or suspected! Everyone was watching him on the big screen trying to save his streak, and no one got suspicious enough?

5) Regarding his second solve not being close: the first one killed it, and so the second really meant nothing to him. Also, I haven't tried to find out his 3x3x3 BLD method or anything, but it's M-intensive, so I think think he uses an advanced freestyle with crazy free buffering, and has to keep making decisions.

6) No one's complained about his WR vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqZWVT82Ekc).

7) If he's looking, how much? He's solving pieces in the back without glancing at them, and if he can do this with most of the cube, why not all?

You know why he doesn't post on forums and share his methods, etc? Not just to save time, it's not to deal with annoying posts and requests and accusations that he would have to attend instead of focusing on real cubing.



EDIT:
9) 15 cubes??? That's a lot of solving to find a "suspicious moment."

10) Can you give us a good reason why you say this right after the weekend of his first 3x3x3 DNF?
(If someone else, like a judge, vouches for what was claimed about the nature of his DNF's, tell us.)

Lemme see:
This was just posted by Derrick Eide: http://speedsolving.com/showthread.php?t=2835

Then some guy comes along with a first post and no introduction, whose name resembles Milan's, and this is only affirmed by Derrick Eide himself.
ShadenSmith
02-07-2008, 12:34 AM
I agree with Lucas. I think Matyas is an honest cuber.
tim
02-07-2008, 12:40 AM
Several things:
5) Regarding his second solve not being close: the first one killed it, and so the second really meant nothing to him. Also, I haven't tried to find out his 3x3x3 BLD method or anything, but it's M-intensive, so I think think he uses an advanced freestyle with crazy free buffering, and has to keep making decisions.


I would use many M-moves too, if i use 3-cycle without orientation. Just to flip the orientation of UF/UB.
Kenneth
02-07-2008, 12:45 AM
Lucas, note that Milan wrote this:

"I don't want to say that he can't solve the cube blindfolded in 1 minute, I just want to say that he cheated. I KNOW that he can do it. But he cheated his WRs."
Derrick Eide17
02-07-2008, 12:50 AM
Mhhhhhhh...Derrike...i think about what you are writing...
we will see on the BENELUX OPEN...
i cant imagine, that he is a cheater...

Several things:

1) Let's not discuss cheating prevention method in this thread. I have pointed out that it is currently still possible to obtain the scramble early and fake it enough to seem to beat any system during the actual solve.
But this has reminded me that a paper may not be too useful. If you can see the cube getting solved (like, corners getting completed and staying that way thereafter), okay, but what prevents us from doing an arbitrary algorithm while the paper is over? I could do some form of a superflip and then do it again later...

2) On the 15-cube vid he's making progress on the corners all the time, and then switching to edges. Where's the problem?

3) Spare moves and rotations. I think Matyas is just good at keeping track of the cube while deciding on orientation for algs, and I don't see a reason that R2R2 is cheating.

4) Wow, that's a long time not to get caught or suspected! Everyone was watching him on the big screen trying to save his streak, and no one got suspicious enough?

5) Regarding his second solve not being close: the first one killed it, and so the second really meant nothing to him. Also, I haven't tried to find out his 3x3x3 BLD method or anything, but it's M-intensive, so I think think he uses an advanced freestyle with crazy free buffering, and has to keep making decisions.

6) No one's complained about his WR vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqZWVT82Ekc).

7) If he's looking, how much? He's solving pieces in the back without glancing at them, and if he can do this with most of the cube, why not all?

You know why he doesn't post on forums and share his methods, etc? Not just to save time, it's not to deal with annoying posts and requests and accusations that he would have to attend instead of focusing on real cubing.



EDIT:
9) 15 cubes??? That's a lot of solving to find a "suspicious moment."

Well surely you HAVE to believe in ODDS. math doesnt lie. like i said isnt it weird how 1/30 something chance occurs, then right after a 1/10 chance? and not to mention like at WC the 2:57 solve. also milan did comment on his WR video. like he said he is standing and holding the cuber quite close to his chest. also if you look its almost like he is solving the corners with a type of R2UR2U'R2 alg which really cant be used for BLD corners. also with ALL the cube rotations he does he's saying he's looking for the pieces to see them and even if u need to find where you are, rotating the cuber OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again doesnt help one bit. Matyas Could be an honest cuber afterall but too many things go against him is what im saying.also his 15 cube Multi i could find more suspicious parts probably, not to mention almost all of his videos have something supsicious in it, including the odds that have occured lately come on you have to at least think there is a chance of cheating.
Leo
02-07-2008, 12:59 AM
No math indeed does not lie, but odds are called odds for a reason, because they are not certain. I refuse to believe he is cheating until there is something more certain than chance against him.
rubiks to the third
02-07-2008, 01:00 AM
and does anyone else comprehend how hard it would be to see through that tiny supposed sliver of space that exists since his blindfold supposedly isnt on correctly.
DennisStrehlau
02-07-2008, 01:05 AM
Derrike...you are right...
matyas, please show us, that cou CAN do it!!!
DennisStrehlau
02-07-2008, 01:10 AM
OKAY NOW!
nobody knows, if he cheats or not...
i do not really think, that he is doing!
we will see in the next competition!
so far...MATYAS IS THE BEST...
Lucas Garron
02-07-2008, 01:21 AM
Well surely you HAVE to believe in ODDS. math doesnt lie. like i said isnt it weird how 1/30 something chance occurs, then right after a 1/10 chance?
Math doesn't lie (actually, it can gt pretty contradictory and be grossly abused). But if you want to go that way, math is empirical, and also tells you no truths.

And that just makes a 1/300 chance.

also milan did comment on his WR video.
The 54? I looked and couldn't find his comment. What's his account on YouTube?

also if you look its almost like he is solving the corners with a type of R2UR2U'R2 alg which really cant be used for BLD
corners.
R2 U R2 U' R2 IS used for BLD corners. Macky has that alg on his page (in a different orientation).
Try (R2 U R2 U' R2) D2 (R2 U R2 U' R2) D2.
Also, I use R2 U L2 U R2 U'L2 U R2 U2 R2.
So, that's exactly what you'd expect him to use. Especially since he orients.

also with ALL the cube rotations he does he's saying he's looking for the pieces to see them and even if u need to find where you are, rotating the cuber OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again doesnt help one bit.
He doesn't do them OVER AND OVER all the time. Like I said, we don't know if he's visualizing commutators or not. And I don't think it's easy to glean the right info from such angling, and still solve freestyle normally and quickly.
I ould ask him to explicate a solve, but he has ha requested to keep his method private, and we shouldn't make him give up his secret tool for a fledgling accusation with no WCA involved.

not to mention almost all of his videos have something supsicious in it, including the odds that have occured lately come on you have to at least think there is a chance of cheating.
All? I dispute that. I think Rowe willl vouch for the 15 multi at Worlds.
There is always a chance of cheating. For all we know, Tyson may be a cheater. I'm not denying your information either, but the talk so far on this forum isn't convincing.

I would like to note that I've heard from edd5190 that Kai received the link to this thread from Milan himself, but I'm not taking that as conclusive yet.
Derrick Eide17
02-07-2008, 01:57 AM
and does anyone else comprehend how hard it would be to see through that tiny supposed sliver of space that exists since his blindfold supposedly isnt on correctly.

are u joking me? its SO EASY to see under the space of the BLD especially when ur standing. also yeah lucas were obviously not gonna solve anything here lol ill mention things and you dont think he cheats at all so i cant convince you but yeah milan mentioned aobut his WR in this topic saying he stands and holds cube close to him which is obviously incredibly easy to look. and the R2 U R2 U' R2 corner thing yeah ur right that alg is useful but that's definetly not what matyas used in his WR. but eah lets just wait till benelux oh just one morething, i was talking to milan RIGHT before he posted this on msn, and he told me everything he thought so its him man for sure. Even if u say it could be fake email, i got it from ERik man so its milan.
qqwref
02-07-2008, 02:01 AM
How about this idea.

Take a cube he solves blindfold, and record what the edges look like before corners. Then record what they look like after corners. If it's the same thing or very similar, great - but if you take a cube he makes a mistake on (yet solves) and the edges come out totally different after the corners are solved, he must be looking at some point.

I don't think he's cheating as of yet, but I approve of submitting the top cubers to this level of scrutiny, especially when they are not very active in the community. Cheating at high levels is a problem in many sports.
Dene
02-07-2008, 02:31 AM
Well we all know that people here can completely recreate solves (remember the yish thing). I'm sure they could do the same with many of the videos on Youtube with Mr. Kuti. Actaully, I'm not sure why no one has done this to discover his super method yet lol.
tim
02-07-2008, 02:33 AM
Well we all know that people here can completely recreate solves (remember the yish thing). I'm sure they could do the same with many of the videos on Youtube with Mr. Kuti. Actaully, I'm not sure why no one has done this to discover his super method yet lol.

maybe because there's no super method? Just usual bld solves.
Dene
02-07-2008, 02:37 AM
Ooooh, well have that attitude then :p . I certainly could do with learning whatever method he uses. I think I might have a bit of fun and try out something new for myself...
Lofty
02-07-2008, 02:49 AM
along with how messed up the cubes were what were the times on the DNF's? He could have been pushing to break his WR and just went too fast.
And if i recall Matyas asked that his solves not be recreated from his videos.
I trust him.
He is not very involved but that doesn't mean no one ever talks to him. Talk to people who have. He has very impressive times in other areas of cubing showing he puts time in practicing cubing so why not the same dedication into him being that fast bld as well.
The accusers: Someone who has claimed to met him and another suspicious person who I don't think has.
People on his side: People who actually know him.
tim
02-07-2008, 02:50 AM
along with how messed up the cubes were what were the times on the DNF's? He could have been pushing to break his WR and just went too fast.

Something around 1:30/1:40.
Lucas Garron
02-07-2008, 02:51 AM
1) I don't do it, out of respect. He once asked me not to (not that he can prevent me, but I respect his achievement).
2) His solves aren't ultra-fantastic, only the memo (and you can't find anything out about that from ids). His exec is a reasonable, humanly fast, consistent stage. I might even beat him in execution-only races.
3) In a sense, there's nothing to find. He ("obviously") uses what is the best blindfold method there is: freestyle. His particular execution might be a good example, but he is using the most efficient, intuitive method possible, and simply has good memo and switched before everyone else thought to do so.

EDIT:
I'm publishing my approach to freestyle after general r2, which I'm working on right now.
Pedro
02-07-2008, 02:56 AM
Well we all know that people here can completely recreate solves (remember the yish thing). I'm sure they could do the same with many of the videos on Youtube with Mr. Kuti. Actaully, I'm not sure why no one has done this to discover his super method yet lol.

I once started to do this, but he asked me not to do it...

like Lucas said, not that he can prevent it, but he made his point and I agreed...

but I'm thinking about reconsidering that...
Derrick Eide17
02-07-2008, 03:04 AM
yes if its to make cubing safer with no cheating i think you should reconsider, we need to have proof once and for all about this craziness. like come on i cant believe no one can believe these things as just coincidences.
Dene
02-07-2008, 03:06 AM
I see. How does freestyle BLD work? (I know, noob question). I assume there is some sort of consistent structure to it?

yes if its to make cubing safer with no cheating i think you should reconsider, we need to have proof once and for all about this craziness. like come on i cant believe no one can believe these things as just coincidences.

Why not? Coincidences happen an extreme amount of time if you hadn't noticed...
rubiks to the third
02-07-2008, 03:14 AM
this reminds of the JFK movie
Derrick Eide17
02-07-2008, 03:33 AM
Why not? Coincidences happen an extreme amount of time if you hadn't noticed..."""

umm... umm.... MAN WTF lmao why cant u see what happened?
first time he gets cube covered, BOOM DNF. isnt that at ALL STRANGE TO YOU?????
tim
02-07-2008, 03:35 AM
Why not? Coincidences happen an extreme amount of time if you hadn't noticed..."""

umm... umm.... MAN WTF lmao why cant u see what happened?
first time he gets cube covered, BOOM DNF. isnt that at ALL STRANGE TO YOU?????

maybe it seems strange, but it proves nothing.
Lucas Garron
02-07-2008, 03:46 AM
Why not? Coincidences happen an extreme amount of time if you hadn't noticed..."""

umm... umm.... MAN WTF lmao why cant u see what happened?
first time he gets cube covered, BOOM DNF. isnt that at ALL STRANGE TO YOU?????

maybe it seems strange, but it proves nothing.

Erik gets an OC, BOOM WR! doesnt that prove to you that hes only good bcuz he has an OC????
Derrick Eide17
02-07-2008, 03:48 AM
WTF! lol erik didnt get WR immediately after getting OC?! Lol. and it matters about the cuber not the cube. what happened to matyas and him being a cheater is ACTUALLY logical, and makes sense.
Dene
02-07-2008, 04:14 AM
It would also make a lot of sense for the people of America to have never voted in Mr. Bush, but did that happen?

I know, I'm being fallacious (strawman) but I don't care, the point is that you cannot make a mountain out of a molehill. There is a co-incidence here, I think we all agree on that, it doesn't instantly mean that he cheats...
Cerberus
02-07-2008, 04:26 AM
After all the chances got nothing to say in my opinion, because it's impossible to always succeed, so he got to fail one day and maybe it was just a bad day for him, look at magic and master magic...
Magic: 2 DNF + 29.21
Master Magic: DNF + 15.65
(I don't know in which order the competitions took place, but maybe it was just annoying him and he couldn't concentrate as normal)

On the other side of course it strikes me that he stops solves right after he couldn't look at the cube (the 2:57 vid)
and that he fails after you made it impossible to see the cube, but we should wait for the next competition, you can put your paper the whole execution time there and he can prove his skills.

Untill it's not proved that he cheated i believe in him, even if there's the huge gap of
1 Mátyás Kuti 54.83 Hungary Czech Open 2007
2 Danyang Chen 1:10.27 China Beijing Open 2007
but he owns in so many categories as Lofty said before...
Dene
02-07-2008, 04:43 AM
You know I just watched the 2:57 video, and so what? I don't see the proble, he screwed up. If you watch the 1:07 video, the lady puts the paper in the way and there's no problem whatsoever.
Ton
02-07-2008, 05:12 AM
Matays also DNF during some practise solves in UK in a restaurant, just a DNF is not an indication of cheating. The fact that he correct corners is not an indication, I did this twice in a competions -one successfull- , it is possible to track back after a mistake.

He told me his BLD at Belgian Open the first attempt he places the cube with the wrong centrer on the table, at the second attempt he used a different memthod to memorize he did not practise a lot.

Ron is still looking for a good blinfold, at the Benulux Open we will use the paper block, so Matays can prove his skills...
CraigBouchard
02-07-2008, 05:16 AM
My 2 cents...

From what I know, he uses freestyle cycles that don't involve orienting. Milan did post this, as I was talking to Derrick as he was talking to Milan. Milan was Matyas' judge at Belgian Open, and he was the one who put the paper over the cube. Of course, Derrick told me that it was Milan, so that could have been a lie, could have been.

Why doesn't Matyas want anyone to recreate a solve, or talk about his methods or anything? He is the only cuber who does that. Every time I have talked to him he has been rude to me, maybe not rude, but not nice.

I do believe that he can solve a cube blindfolded, but I wonder if, under all circumstances, he could do it in sub-1 or 1:xx if he knew that the cube was going to be covered for the entire solve. As for the early days when he first started doing BLD solves, maybe they were real, and then after he realised he could cheat so easily he began to do it and get better times. It is fairly easy to see under the blindfold if you know where to position it on your face. I've tested it in my basement. Also, why are all of Matyas' memo times in the 13-15 second range? With almost no variation. In the 2:57 video, the only thing that strikes me as odd is that he stops looking at the cube around 11 seconds, and waits until 13 to pull down his blindfold.

Again, I have not made a decision either way about Matyas. I'll agree that he is indeed fast at many events, because how can you cheat at Magic, Clock, 4x4, 5x5, or any other speed solving event? Blindfold is completely different from speedsolving, but I agree that if he is found out to be a cheater, the punishment should be to lose all of his records, until the next competition he goes to at which he can re-break any record.

The WCA should implement some sort of rule for blindfold cubing that makes cheating absolutely impossible, which could be as simple as a piece of black paper.

My 2 cents...may have been 5, but I'll call it 2.

Peace,

Craig
Derrick Eide17
02-07-2008, 05:39 AM
My 2 cents...
Of course, Derrick told me that it was Milan, so that could have been a lie, could have been.

u calling me a liar craig? lmao. but yeah anways everthing u mentioned is true and pretty reasonable. and yes that solve where matyas waits for the 13 seconds THEN pulls down his BLD is his 1:07 solve from the WC. although he could still have done the same on his 2:57 solve, because like craig said his memo times never range really at all much. but anyways i just REALLY want to wait to Benelux Open
pjk
02-07-2008, 06:03 AM
One thing. Look at his 4x4 and 5x5 BLD videos. That would be nearly impossible to cheat on. They kind of counter-act. Memo'ing a 5x5 in under 3 minutes is pretty impressive, and he solving looks legit.
Dene
02-07-2008, 06:09 AM
My 2 cents...
In the 2:57 video, the only thing that strikes me as odd is that he stops looking at the cube around 11 seconds, and waits until 13 to pull down his blindfold.


They way I see this is that he is just making sure it is in his memory, I do the same thing (although, I take a bit more than 2 seconds :p ).
Leo
02-07-2008, 06:29 AM
My 2 cents...
In the 2:57 video, the only thing that strikes me as odd is that he stops looking at the cube around 11 seconds, and waits until 13 to pull down his blindfold.


They way I see this is that he is just making sure it is in his memory, I do the same thing (although, I take a bit more than 2 seconds :p ).

My thoughts exactly. I really don't think anyone should be accusing him of cheating with odds as your only proof.
ThePizzaGuy92
02-07-2008, 07:05 AM
the video of the 2:57 solve makes me think, he was doing find until the guy covered with his hand... then he happened to forget. he thought for awhile then did a cycle hoping the judge would then remove his hand, then to hide it, he continued to think, acting like he was still stuck, but after awhile he just undid the cycle the he did when the hand covered the cube, then solved the rest. I think he's a good cuber, but this was incredibly suspicious.
KJiptner
02-07-2008, 07:14 AM
I would like to note that I've heard from edd5190 that Kai received the link to this thread from Milan himself, but I'm not taking that as conclusive yet.

It's true. This is Milans work.
Thank you Lucas for your well considered comments. One of dem relly made me laugh but I won't go into detail, man LOL. It feels kind of strange to me how someone can make an accusing post and all of a sudden people who have not witnessed anything start to believe very hard in it.
joey
02-07-2008, 08:02 AM
From what I know, he uses freestyle cycles that don't involve orienting.
He orients corners.
Why doesn't Matyas want anyone to recreate a solve, or talk about his methods or anything? He is the only cuber who does that.
Maybe he wants to keep some tricks to himself? I know some people like to share this sort of thing, but there isn't anything stating that you have to share things you have found.

Also, why are all of Matyas' memo times in the 13-15 second range? With almost no variation. In the 2:57 video, the only thing that strikes me as odd is that he stops looking at the cube around 11 seconds, and waits until 13 to pull down his blindfold.
I really think that does't count for anything. Sometimes I will take a 1-2s gap after memo, to go through it all in my head. If he was cheating, would he care about 2s?
Hiram
02-07-2008, 09:44 AM
I think Matyas is the best blindfold cuber. He has great memo and fast execution.

In his best times on competitions like sub1 I think he couldn`t cheat. He was twisting just too fast. But I think that it is possible that he can see a cube even with a blindfold and maybe he was using this "cheat" to just check if everything is going well.

I think that puting a block of paper on Matyas` blind solve next time won`t prove anything. He will solve it in lets say 1:20 that is all, maybe less. Was he cheating ?
I think that Matyas should present his technique to few people who analyzed his videos, so that his RUR' RU'R' will make sense. It is sad but I think it is Matyas who have to prove that he was never cheating or to confess his guilt.
StefanPochmann
02-07-2008, 10:58 AM
I think Matyas just broke another record. The most-posts-about-one-person-in-one-night record. Geez. But let me add to it.

why are all of Matyas' memo times in the 13-15 second range? With almost no variation.

1) Are they? Please provide the complete list of the times that you obviously have.
2) Does that also mean Yu Nakajima cheats? His unofficial average record has a standard deviation of only 0.64 seconds!

if he is found out to be a cheater, the punishment should be to lose all of his records
I strongly disagree. Why should legitimate records be discarded?
karthikputhraya
02-07-2008, 12:14 PM
I think that we must report this to the WCA and involve the WCA members in to the investigation.I am only praying that these accusations be proved false.
Cheating or no cheating, he has really been an inspiration to many of us.
vBulletin v3.6.7, Copyright 2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Come to think of It, Matyas also held world records in many other events. How can he possibly cheat in the 4x4, 5x5, magic, master magic, clocks, etc... these are events where he also held world records. He definitely can't cheat in these events. So, what do you think???

nung narinig ko talaga na nag dnf si matyas kuti, una kong reaction was. hala ka, baka he was cheating all along. at ngayon lang lumabas dahil sa kpraningan ni pochmann na gumawa ng mga bagong ways to prevent cheating during blds..

tpos binigay ni ken yung link ng discussion nito sa speedsolving.com
at allegedly scrambler nya ang nag post. na nung tinakpan niya daw ng piece of paper yung cube during the whole solve, dun nag dnf si matyas kuti. kasi nga ngayon, ang protocol lang ay takpan for ilang seconds to check lang.. kaso ang sabi, you can just do a super flip during this time and unflip them all later...

i agree na magaling siya(magic, master magic, rubiks clock and single solves). at marunong siyang magbld(baka nga lang not that fast). pero right now there are a lot of odds against him.

still, inocent until proven guilty.[/i]

these are all assumptions, no concrete evidence.

let matyas kuti solve 3x3(BLD) and cover it w/ paper or something, and let see if he's cheating, and that's the only evidence.

I still believe that he's innocent. That's all I can say right now.

innocent until proven guilty

he's innocent..

watch this video. I don't think matyas cheated in this solve. the angle was safe enough, and i don't think anyone can see the cube from that angle. and, the cube was far enough from his body.

aw,,,d aq naniniwla mga kuya innocnt xa hehe,, ^^

tingin ko innocent. kasi mahirap nmn un kung sasali ka sa competition if ang tangin inaasahan mo lng ehh ung mandaya. may mga solnvg nmn xang mabilis sa BLD eh..

ewan ko,, pero tingin ko innocent..

Ok, I believe Matyas Kuti is in fact a cheater, or has cheated at least one or two of his solves.
I know he is innocent until proven guilty but I see enough evidence to think he's cheating. I recommend you watch all of Mayas' videos before deciding. They actually really look like he cheated.
First of all, when his cube was covered with a paper (I saw 2 videos with this) he DNFd the solve or paused until it was removed. As soon as it was covered(first video) he immediately paused. How could he know if his cube was covered if his eyes were closed? Even if he felt it being placed there, that wouldnt prevent him from executing algorithms unless he was in fact looking at the cube. After the paper was removed he paused for some seconds then started again (he is clearly acting here. If he started as soon as the paper was removed, it would be too obvious).
With the second video, he DNFd a single BLD solve. His cube was covered the entire time. Now this is what I think: First, he never DNFd a single BLD before except for this case. Second, this is the first time they cover his cube 100% of the time. You can call this coincidence but it makes total sense that he just looks at his cube at a certain time in his solve.
Further points that support my belief is that he refuses to expose his method. Why? Maybe because his method for solving so fast involves cheating. This is just my assumption but it fits very well into the theory that Matyas cheats. Just think that the reason why he memorizes so fast is because he doesnt even memorize the whole cube. For example, he just memorizes edge and corner orientation, but not permutation. So, he does orientation blindfolded, but at permutation, he looks and solves the rest of the cube looking. This is just one possibility that is highly likely to me.
If you look at the blindfold he uses you can clearly see that it is possible to see the cube out of the bottom. You can try it yourselves with a blindfold. I already tried, and its very easy to see the cube. This is maybe why he holds the cube close to his body during a BLD solve.
We also have a witness(a judge) and that testifies against Matyas . Milan is trusted by the WCA and his testimony means a lot to me; plus the WCA wouldnt allow him to judge if he was incompetent. Milan seems thoroughly convinced that Matyas cheats. I can't believe him totally, but I'm saying that having a first hand witness greatly strengthens the case that Matyas cheats.
So, if he does cheat, I dont see any reason why he couldnt also cheat in other events like 5x5 and 4x4 BLD. If it is proven that he does cheat( i think it will soon), I think all his BLD records should be taken away if not all his WR's. If he is cheating, he cant be a trusted blindfold solver and keeping WR's that could possibly be tainted is unacceptable. In addition, I dont think he should be allowed to compete at all if he cheats.
I know it hurts to think of Matyas as a cheater but i think, with all the info out there, that he really does cheat.
Before saying whether you think he's innocent or not, all of you should really look at the videos and the comments of the people that actually saw him solve. Then, you can decide for yourselves if he cheats or not. I took a look at these and I believe he cheats. I hope they prove it in the next competition he joins so we can finally expose him for what he is, innocent or not.
Since Matyas knows he will be closely watched in the next competition, I think he will either not show up at all to the next one, not join any blindfold events, or he will join BLD events, not cheat, and his times will be nowhere near what he usually gets.
Just my 2 cents here. Keep an eye out for Matyas' next competition. One of those 3 will definitely happen.

very well said mateus..

kanina pinanuod ko ung mga video nea copetition ata ung last year 2007. tingin ko nga ng daya xa, "TINGIN KO LNG"
kasi kanina habng nag sesearch ako about sa issue nto try kong panuodin at mag concluce kong tama ba ang ng yayaari.. based on what i saw, tingin ko positive.. nag cheat xa..siguro mag tataka keo sakin kung bakit sa una kong post sabi ko innocent xa. tapos naun bigla akong nag turn table na bigla bigla kong sinabi na Cheatr xa. eto lng nmn ay base on my opinion.

try to analyze kung pano nka suot sa ulo nea ung mask.. dba parang maxado ng matas above nose n maxado. !!

tapos try neo tingn ung pag suot ng mask ng ibng neang kalban..
kasi kung accident lng na ganun ung pagkakalagay nea bkit most of the time accident lng??

keo bahalang mag conclude pero isang nagpapatunay na cheatr si matyas ung judge na kapartner nea. which is laging nag cocover ng BLd solvings nea.. nea.

try neo po panuodin dito kungpano nkalagay ung mask nea..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDsQ7NnhJKU

and this one..

ACting??

another one. bakit ganito ba xa tlga mag lagay ng BLd mask 0:17secs???




mahirap mag decide basta basta, sabi nga ni kuya "Pajo Daep" sana sa nxt competitions baguhin na ung takip sa mata. ng parang goggles na khit below sa nose nea inde makaakkita. para inde hassle sa mga judges na humawak ng white paper or smonthing..


sana inde xa cheatr kasi malaking kahihiyan to pra sa rubiks community..


pero sabi neo nga
innocent until proven guilty!!


basta tau mga pinoy play safe cube more train harder..

mkkapag set din ng record ang mga pinoy dba guys!!!

yes mat, i agree with everything you said. and the benelux open is almost here. i just cant wait to see what happens

if matyas kuti really is a cheater,than he deserves another award. haha he should be given an oscar for that video. lol

by the way, i tried to make a video of me blindsolving the cube. and i realized that even if i hold the cube,6 inches away from my body, i can still see it and its not obvious at all that i could see. and everytime that im looking for pieces, i just go around touching different edges to pretend that im remembering the permutations. lol

p.s.
i forgot to say carrot. that wouldve given my post a lot more sense

ano ung carrot???

nakikita ko din un sa ibng video ni matyas carrot lng comment nla..


hmm...

too bad for him kung ma asure ng lahat ng positive si matyas. im very very sure n sa nxt turney will be waiting for the matyas turn...

sigurado ako bka mapuno pa ung lugar ng mga gustong mka witness..!!

carrot - pampalinaw daw ng mata. thats what they said

it might be a metaphor. IDK

Innocent until proven guilty

abt the vid posted by eaU^

his head was tilting a bit down, wasnt it? wouldnt that make it just a bit harder to peek from the bottom?

and look at how he positioned his hands this time. people say that he cheats by having his hands near his body. this time it isnt.

and sure, he may have stuttered when the judge first placed his hands inbetween, but consider this possibility:

notice how matyas got excited during memo. it could be that he realized that the solve was super easy or that maybe he thought of a story so funny or disgusting. either way, after the excitement he may have either underesmtimated and did not provide much effort in memo, or the thought of the funny or disgusting story mustve thrown him off.

second, since this is not a multi BLD type, why did he still have to "act" even though the judge is not covering the cube? sure he might get "caught" and all, but he certainly is capable of looking at the cube subtly and continue solving. I believe at this point he really is trying to remember.

and u may base his wearing of the mask by the area still uncovered "on the part of the nose", right? yeah, we can still see his shiny nose clearly, and that shouldnt be. but notice how his blindfold looks. it has a rather BIG curving down when it gets to the eyes. if the people who claim to have tested trying to see from their blindfold have similar blindfold as matyas, then it may be believable. but as far as i know, most blindfolds used have rather flat shapes, where the height on the nose part and the eye part is almost the same. we cannot use our own blindfolds to test this. and you may never know, he might have respiratory something so he needs big space for his nose

edit: and oh yeah, consider the fact that he holds the cube near his body. why shouldnt he do it especially in multi? i mean, he's gonna hold an object for at least 30 minutes. he will get tired of holding the cube away from his body. try it for yourself. holding it closer while NOT INTENTIONALLY CHEATING will be a great option for you....

i agree d nmn siguro sila mag eefort nang gnyang kahabng storya kung walng percentage na 22o un

Matyas Kuti will not compete at Benelux Open! He was advised not to join and decided not to. The videos are quite suspicious and to the fact that all the DNF and slow BLD solves were the times the cubes were covered. Do you guys know Milan? You can ask the Hungarian Team about him. And the commotions building between them and Matyas before this event. I'm not on either side but in far view, this gives speedcubing a very bad image.

UncarreD1925 wrote:Matyas Kuti will not compete at Benelux Open! He was advised not to join and decided not to.

and i was counting the days till the the benelux open. I guess everyone would have to wait a lot longer for the verdict of this issue.

UncarreD1925 wrote:I'm not on either side but in far view, this gives speedcubing a very bad image.

yes, thats the worst part. and its very disheartening. but i hope this will be sorted out soon...

i don't see why not joining the benelux open was a very good advise. parang mas nag raise lang ng much suspision yung ganun. anyway. yeah all we can do is wait.